Cutthroat Caverns

[Titus]

I first heard about this card game from small publisher Smirk and Dagger Games on Tom Vasel’s The Dice Tower podcast. Once I found out the premise, I knew it was the kind of game I’d like to have in my collection.

Overview of gameplay

Cutthroat Caverns is a game of adventure and betrayal for 3-6 players. You play a party of adventurers fighting your way out of a dungeon. Your goal is to survive and have the most Prestige points. You earn Prestige by dealing the killing blow to monsters that you encounter.

Each character starts with 100 Life Points and a hand of 7 cards. Should you lose all your Life Points, you’re out of the game.

The game is a series of nine Encounters, randomly drawn from a set of 25 (expansions add more). Most Encounters are monsters that must be killed, but a few are not (traps, riddles, etc.). Once an Encounter is revealed, a combat round begins.

Players draw a random initiative card, which determines in what order they attack in the current combat round. They then each ‘set’ an Attack Card facedown. Once all set, each player, in initiative order, reveals his/her card and resolves it. Attack Cards usually have an amount of damage on it, ranging from 0 to 100. Players then have the option to play Action Cards that affect the Attack Card. For example, some Action Cards can reduce the damage of an Attack Card or even prevent a player from attacking, while other Action Cards affect other Action Cards.

All successful Attack Cards are stacked until the Encounter takes lethal damage, in which case the player who dealt the killing blow earns Prestige points for the Encounter. If the Encounter is still alive, it gets to attack the players, then a new combat round begins.

This is repeated for the next eight Encounters, except that the last three Encounters are worth more Prestige points. At the end, all surviving characters count their Prestige and whoever has the most is the winner.

My take

Cutthroat Caverns is firmly in the category of “mean and nasty” games. Thus, it’s not for everyone. However, for those who do like these games, this can be a riot.

The game’s main appeal is in the tension between cooperating and ‘defecting’ (in game theory terms). The catchphrase says it all: “Without teamwork, you’ll never survive. Without betrayal, you’ll never win.” The tension ramps up near the end as players jockey for the killing blow for the Encounters that are worth the most. At this point, you’ll see a lot of Action Cards played.

Some monsters are so deadly that players are almost forced to cooperate to survive it, unless someone chooses to take the chance and screw everyone else. Healing is also very limited; items are one-use and removed from the game after use.

My two plays so far have been fun and it seems to work best with 5-6 players. The one flaw I see is that the bonus Prestige points for the last three Encounters make the first six Encounters matter less. So effectively, the first two-thirds of the game build up to the last third. Because of this everyone has a good chance to win at the end, but the player who has the most Prestige gets targeted. Also, it’s quite possible for a player about to die to play kingmaker and cause another player to win.

For me, these flaws are minor in a game of this type. This game is all about player interaction and good-natured backstabbing. If your group dislikes direct screwage, stay away. But if your group understands and accepts the game’s premise and objectives, and can get into mean and nasty mode without metagame consequences, Cutthroat Caverns can be loads of fun.

My initial rating is 7 out of 10.


Pros: High tension from balance between teamwork and betrayal; very high player interaction, some very creatively designed Encounters

Cons: Not for players who dislike direct screwage; possible kingmaking

[maskmanjoe]

Interestingly enough, in the 5 times that I've played Cutthroat Caverns I have never seen anyone play kingmaker. They would rather the entire party die at the hands of the last encounter than to let any one person win Now that is screwage, and my gaming group are so good at it it scares me sometimes

Definitely loving this game.

[Titus]

Well, I've only played it twice and it happened in the first game. We were down to four players (from six) and the last encounter was worth so many points that any of us would win if we killed it. Adrian only had 10 life points left and would not survive the next attack by the monster. I was initiative 3 and I attacked and would deal lethal damage. Another player (Gerald?) played an Action Card to screw me, but Adrian (initiative 4) canceled his Action Card, letting me attack and get the last kill. His reasoning was he wanted to survive the dungeon and his next attack would not kill the monster, so he would die when the monster attacked.

Maybe it's a rare situation but his reasoning was valid. There were no complaints from the other players.

[maskmanjoe]

i guess when push comes to shove, my gaming friends would feel more satisfied that we wipe gotta love them

[Brel]

The game has a good strong impression on me even if I've just played it once.  The many monster cards (and unique threat/abilities it has), rotating initiative, and 7 hand cards plus three expansions will make sure every game has a different experience.  Even just the base game has enough cards to provide some variety to the encounters.

For me, "Cutthroat Caverns" has a similar feel to playing video games wherein you fight big bosses at the end of each stage/level (Megaman, Castlevania, etc.).  But most of the time you directly go to the bosses to fight!  It also reminds me of that popular Family Computer boxing game "Punch Out!" where each enemy has unique weaknesses and strengths. 

Can't wait to play the game and also try out the "Cutthroat Caverns: Relics & Ruins" expansion.   That expansion provides Relics and Event cards!  Those should make the game more challenging and much more exciting. 

Some say "Cutthroat Caverns" also has a similar feel to another tabletop card game called "Red Dragon Inn 1 & 2". hmm would also like to try that one.

[maskmanjoe]

Some say "Cutthroat Caverns" also has a similar feel to another tabletop card game called "Red Dragon Inn 1 & 2". hmm would also like to try that one.

I guess in the "screw your neighbor" sense they may have the same feel but i think Red Dragon Inn is a little more laid back because everyone is already back in town gambling with their loot (rather than trying to survive 9 boss encounters :p). Don't you have a copy? Di pa natin nalalaro.

[Titus]

Glad you enjoyed the game, Brel!

I'm looking to try the first expansion. I also have to decide if I'll invest in the other expansions. They seem pricey in terms of what you get in the box, but the game is easy to teach and quite fun if you have a group who can get really into it.

[maskmanjoe]

I'm looking to try the first expansion. I also have to decide if I'll invest in the other expansions. They seem pricey in terms of what you get in the box, but the game is easy to teach and quite fun if you have a group who can get really into it.

I've tried the Deeper and Darker expansion already and you are right in saying its quite expensive for what you get out of the box: about a small pile of new encounters, character abilities (the only new mechanic in this expansion) and several new tokens. I wasnt too satisfied when I opened the box but thankfully the new encounters provided some very interesting games. An Arkham small box expansion gives waaaaaay more for a smaller package. I may not get the other expansions till much much later

[Brel]

Well, Tom Vasel's review for the Deeper & Darker expansion is not really that good so I did not expect much for that one.  But I feel it is important to have if you are a completist... and wants to add more variety to the Encounter Cards for a lesser cost.  It would be nice if they provided more rule enhancements for the player characters that allow them to be truly unique with each other and not just one-time use abilities.

But Vasel has high praises for Expansion 2 (Relics & Ruin) and Expansion 3 (Tombs & Tomes).  So I am sure it would be a great addition!  The game would feel more complete with Relics, Events, and a sort of Scenario Booklet (ala D&D Adventure Modules).  Also, I noticed that those two expansions has a thicker box compared to Expansion 1 (Deeper & Darker).  The box size for 2 & 3 have the same thickness with the base game and probably provides more content/components hence the higher price tag.

I've already opened up my copy of Relics & Ruin and I'm hoping to give it a spin this weekend.  Will post more info when I've played the expansion.   

I've also been thinking of other Encounter Cards that may be included in future expansions.  One idea I have is they can sort of create another Room Encounter Card (or maybe a Travelling Merchant) that allows players to buy stuff/relics to enhance their characters (there can also be a bidding mechanism based on initiative).  Then they can maybe introduce gaining gold per monster defeated so players are more rewarded.  This gold can be used to purchase/barter stuff etc.  If that doesn't work, maybe they can use Prestige Points as currency... but that doesn't seem right.  heehee 

With basic mechanics that takes most of the exciting elements of a tabletop RPG and by formatting it into a quick card game, Cutthroat Caverns seems to be well suited for folks who wants to introduce RPG to newbies or rather wants to play tabletop RPG with non-gamers. 

[Titus]

I've also been thinking of other Encounter Cards that may be included in future expansions.  One idea I have is they can sort of create another Room Encounter Card (or maybe a Travelling Merchant) that allows players to buy stuff/relics to enhance their characters (there can also be a bidding mechanism based on initiative).  Then they can maybe introduce gaining gold per monster defeated so players are more rewarded.  This gold can be used to purchase/barter stuff etc.  If that doesn't work, maybe they can use Prestige Points as currency... but that doesn't seem right.  heehee 

Hehe. If you want all these elements, might as well play Descent or D&D. Personally I think CC is nice and streamlined already and would not want it to be bloated with too many additions.

With basic mechanics that takes most of the exciting elements of a tabletop RPG and by formatting it into a quick card game, Cutthroat Caverns seems to be well suited for folks who wants to introduce RPG to newbies or rather wants to play tabletop RPG with non-gamers. 

I have to disagree. RPGs (and dungeoncrawls like Descent) require and emphasize teamwork. Cutthroat Caverns however is completely different. It encourages kill-stealing, a big no-no in online RPGs. The danger is that coming from CC, a newbie might think that RPGs are all about personal glory, then join a real RPG/Descent and piss off his/her teammates.

Actually, I think the people who would have the most fun with CC are RPG veterans who want a break from the teamwork aspect.

[Brel]

Descent and other RPG-like board/card games I previously tried are too long and maybe also too serious for my usual group.

Cuthroat Caverns somewhat managed to make "RPG" interactively and spontaneously "fun" for the casual person... that is if you are ok with the premise.

To me, a complete Role Playing Game (RPG) whether it be online or not should give freedom to the players on what alignment their characters want to have.  If they want to be Chaotic, Neutral, Good etc, the system should be capable to adjust.  Cutthroat Caverns just focuses on maybe the Chaotic or Neutral RPG alignment and revolves around that.  So beware if you are planning to get this game. heehee   Although if I think more about it, I feel the gameplay of CC is not too different from other medium card games like Bang!, Mag-Blast, (maybe even Jambo) etc. where players use cards directly to screw others.  For me, it actually plays like a beer-n-pretzels RPG in card format and that is usually the type of game that most people can easily get into especially for newbies.

Well, let's see how the game will fare for me after a few more plays with expansion 2.   

I noticed the Event Card in Relics & Ruin has Treasure Cards as well that may suit the game better compared to the "gold reward" that I was thinking about.  It is less complex and still was able to retain the "reward" aspect.

[Titus]

To me, a complete Role Playing Game (RPG) whether it be online or not should give freedom to the players on what alignment their characters want to have.  If they want to be Chaotic, Neutral, Good etc, the system should be capable to adjust. 

Ah, put that way I agree somewhat. I just don't see the point of playing in an RPG that's chaotic and every man for himself. You might as well play a multiplayer competitive game. But that's my point of view.

Although if I think more about it, I feel the gameplay of CC is not too different from other medium card games like Bang!, Mag-Blast, (maybe even Jambo) etc. where players use cards directly to screw others.  For me, it actually plays like a beer-n-pretzels RPG in card format and that is usually the type of game that most people can easily get into especially for newbies.

Yes, it seems to have the same feel as Munchkin and Zombies!!! but much better designed. Even though I like dice, CC's card-based system is actually clever and reduces the luck.

[Brel]

I haven't played Munchkin and Zombies!!! yet.  But I read some info about "Munchkin" and it seems they have some similarities alright. 

Having tried Last Night On Earth, which do you prefer among the two (Zombies!!! vs. LNOE)?  I know medyo out-of-topic na but just want to know as I like LNOE very much. 

Arrrgh... Another new card size for Relics & Ruin.  The Event cards requires a 9 x 9 cm sleeves!  Now I am also looking for sleeves that will fit the large Encounter Cards...

[maskmanjoe]

Arrrgh... Another new card size for Relics & Ruin.  The Event cards requires a 9 x 9 cm sleeves!  Now I am also looking for sleeves that will fit the large Encounter Cards...

Are there even any? The encounter cards are rather flimsy so i feel they have to be sleeved somehow. Is there any solution short of lamination?

[Brel]

Are there even any? The encounter cards are rather flimsy so i feel they have to be sleeved somehow. Is there any solution short of lamination?

I'm still looking.  I've just finished putting sleeves to the Attack/item cards.  I used 6.4 x 9 cm sized sleeves for a tight fit but 6.5 x 9 cm would probably be ok too.

I've also just downloaded Headless Hollow's Reference Sheet and I must say its pretty nice.  I don't know if I still need to use the Turn Order Guide though that was included.  In case I do, I must laminate 6 of them. 

In the Relics & Ruin expansion, one of the cool things I found is the Encounter Card: Wereboar that actually uses extra cards just for it!  One face of the card just says "yes" or "no" to determine whether  a struck player had become a Wereboar at the end of the game.  hahaha 

The game also includes an additional "Unintentional Strike" card for those people who bought the 1st edition of the core game as this card was only added in the 2nd edition.  So does this mean I don't have to add that card in the game when I already have the 2nd edition? hmm... probably.